DS & FL VOL. 29: KURTIS BLOW

Originally posted on June 29, 2006


KURTIS BLOW

By Jay Quan

A lot of heads diss Kurt because he was the first commercially succsessful Emcee. This Harlem native was the first rap artist to sign to a major label ( Mecrury/Polygram ) . The infamous Russell Simmons was his manager and negotiated this deal . In fact Russell gave him his name. Kurt says it means " hard hitting like a death blow " .

His first single in ' 79 " Christmas Rappin " was very succsessful , as well as " The Breaks " the same year . Kurtis Blow had many Djs...amongst them Dj Run , AJ , Bill Black and Davy DMX . Kurtis Blow was one of the first real producers in Hip Hop . Not like the so called producers today that rely on samples , Kurtis played several instruments and discovered the Fat Boys . He produced songs for the Fearless Four , Dr Jeckyll and Mr Hyde , Sweet G and the Fat Boys . Kurtis Blow was one of the first to use the legendary linn drum on records and the first to loop a sample (Pump Me Up by Trouble Funk) for If I Ruled The World .

Kurtis Blow was once a member of the Furious 5 , and was also a Dj before becoming an emcee. He used to Dj at Smalls Paradise and the Disco Fever back in the late 70s . Kurt got discovered in 1979 when he was doing a gig with Flash and Lovebug Starski at the Hotel Diplomat on w 43rd st. . Robert Ford and Jb Moore ; two ex billboard writers were in the house ; and looking for talent. Kurtis Blow opened up for the Commodores and the great Bob Marley on the strength of The Breaks.

Kurtis Blow has about 9 full length lps to his credit , and was the first rapper to do a Sprite commercial in ' 85 . He was the first to merge Go Go and Hip Hop in 83 with " Party Time " featuring EU . He moved to LA in 86 and made records with Bob Dylan and a host of others . Peep his performance in the movie Krush Groove . His best joint is " AJ Scratch" and ode to his DJ....other bangers include " Basketball" , " 8 Million Stories " , " The Breaks " and " If I Ruled The World ".

He was also an active participant in the blistering Artist Against Apartheid Record “ Sun City.” Kurtis Blow speaks out emphatically against Alcohol and Drugs. Kurtis' innate ability to reach people is also evident in his selection as spokesperson for The National Ad Counsel. He is an integral part of its youth campaign and can be seen and heard in print, radio and television nationwide as the first to “Say No To Drugs.” He has also been involved with Phoenix House of California, a substance abuse organization with Black community emphasis.

In 1995 Kurtis Blow started working on-air in radio on Power 106 in Southern California. Kurtis Blow is on-air Sunday nights with The Old School Show, a highly rated specialty show that features Blow playing the hits from the past.

In 1996 Kurtis Blow was inducted into the Rock-N-Roll Hall of Fame. In 2002 KB is working on a documentary and a few films.

Kurtis Blow helped legitimize Hip Hop, and now, he intends to help redeem it. Having made a deep commitment to the ways and teachings of Jesus Christ, As Co-founder of the Hip Hop Church, Kurtis serves as rapper, DeeJay and worship leader. “Don't get it twisted, God has always existed,” says Kurtis, “and in terms of these young people out here who love God but do not like to go to church, only Hip Hop can bring them back to the church.”




Interview With Kurtis Blow

Who was the first person that you ever saw Emcee ; and what was the year ?

This cat named JT Hollywood ( not the famous Dj Hollywood ) in 1972 . He was a Dj who used to say his little lines over the music .....JJ The Disco King & Kc The Prince Of Soul were some other early guys . I saw Herc for the first time in 1974 and Dj Hollywood in 76 . When I was growing up my mom would take me shopping ; and we would pass by the record stores ; they always had a speaker outside playing the latest jams . I always stood there and read the charts......thats the first thing that I could read . Sly & The Family Stone , Isley Bros , Jackson 5 and Motown - stuff like that was always topping the charts . James Brown was the best though . I was a breakdancer back in the days and James was the best music to dance to . Sex Machine , Soul Power Live , Licking Stick , Hot Pants , Pop Corn , Say it Loud and Give it up ot turn it loose . James was not only a great entertainer , but he was like a musical Martin Luther King - he coined the phrase Black is beautiful . When I was a Breaker my crew was called the Sons Of Harlem .

You were a Dj also ?

Yeah when I was 7 or 8 my moms would have little parties , and I would play the music . I went around with a sheet of paper getting peoples requests . When I was 13 I had a fake Id that said that I was 19 . I was getting in all the clubs. Pete Dj Jones was the first person that I saw with 2 turntables . This was 1972 . On my 13th birthday me & my best friend Tony Rome (who later became LL Cool Js road manager , and worked at Def Jam ) got together to Dj my party . We hooked up 2 component sets , and had continous music .

When did you know that you wanted to be an Emcee ?

Well I had a vision I call it , like a prophesy when I was 13 . I used to listen to station WWRL with Hank Span ; and I use to mimmick Gary Bird...a Dj . He is the one that Jimmy Spicer and everybody was trying to sound like . He would talk over different records , and he even put out little comedy spoof records . Well I said at 13 that I was gonna be a Dj at WWRL and be just like Gary Bird and get into radio . In 1974 I graduated from junior high and in 75 Ienrolled in the High School of music and art . That was the year that Larry Green introduced me to Kool Herc . Well I was always a hustler...I ran numbers ; I wasnt a stick up kid , but I was a fence for them . I used to sell weed ; and was kicked out of Music and Art for that . Actually the dean said that I had poor attendence , thats all that he could stick me with because he could not prove that I was selling weed . I was like Al Capone & he was like Elliot Ness ; getting me on a technicality . I was then sent to Grandites High , where I got caught selling angel dust . I was always an A student so instead of getting kicked out , the dean said that I wasnt being challenged enough , that I was getting bored - so I had to take this test to see if i qualified to get skipped to college . I passed and was sent to City College . Thats where I hooked up with this short light skinned cat that I had seen years before when I used to hit this club called Nell Glenns with my fake Id . This guy could do the Brookyln Hustle real good...there was the regular Hustle but the Brooklyn Hustle was a lot more complicated . This guy was doin it real good . Any way this guys name was Russell Simmons . We started promoting parties as " Force College Disco ".

At first Dj Eddie Cheeba didnt want me to be down....Russell wanted me to be the son of Eddie Cheeba . It took Cheeba some convincing . I was called Kool Dj Kurt Walker...but they wanted tocall me Kurtis Blow . I didnt like it because everyone would think it was about drugs , but we looked it up in the dictionary and saw that it also meant a force of power . It had a few definitions so I stayed with it . We were trying to be big like M Morton Hall - he promoted Pete Dj Jones .... ....Winston Sanders was also a big downtown promoter...he ended up do big things at the Garden in the late 60s and in the 70s . People like Kool & The Gang , Earth , Wind & Fire and Barry White. Jerry Roebuck was also big . My first jam was at Hotel Diplomat opening for Hollywood . Before that I approached him one night and asked why he never gave me any props . After I walked away he shouted out on the mic...." Kurtis Blow & Force College Dicso in the house " ....thats was it...I got shouted out by Hollywood , I was official !!

What was your affiliation with the Furious 5 ?

I first heard about Flash in 1977 . We met in early 78 at Club 371. Flash and his Emcees were always breaking up . Once Flash didnt have any Emcees . It was just me & Flash .Then Mel came back at one point and it was just us....there is a tape of that one circulating around.At one point they all came back and Kool Kyle the Starchild was down with us. We were Grandmaster Flash & the Serious 7 ! Being down with them was one of the high points of my life . I remember when I first got down with them they had just battled DJ Rock & the Come Off Crew. Furious lost and they were mad....plotting how they were gonna get them next time. One night I was performing at hotel diplomat and I was on fire that night . Jb Moore & Robert Ford from Billboard were in the crowd and thats how I got my deal. I invited Flash to be my Dj ; but he said that he had to stick with Furious , and I understood .

Lets talk about KB the producer...how did you get into producing ?

I used to hang out with Sal Albetiello , owner of the Disco Fever . Me , Sal & Mr Magic were called the Juice Crew....Sal got us all these special diamond rings.....anyway Run Dmc wanted me to produce " Its Like That " . I told them that I was too busy , Sugarhill Gang was knocking me off the charts , I just made a wack album ( Tough only did like 300,000 ) , I was trying to get myself back on top. I told them to wait ...they did it without me , but they used my band Orange Krush . I was kinda mad so I said thats what I will do , start producing . I did mix " Its Like That " . Sal had started Fever Records and I produced " Games People Play " by Sweet G - it was a big hit . I also did " Games Females Play " with Giggolette and " Live at the Fever " with Luv Bug Starski . Then I did Fearless 4 and Jeckyll & Hyde .

How about the Fat Boys.....did their whole thing come about like the Krush Groove movie?

Yeah thats pretty accurate , they won the Tin Pan Apple contest , and they needed someone to produce the records , and Sal got me to do it . The first single had our signature sound...the song" Fat Boys " it had the Davy Dmx bassline and the girls singing.....just like all the Kurtis Blow records . And on " Jail House Rap " , you will notice the Piano sounds like my stuff too .

How was it for a producer back then...was it a flat fee that the label payed ?

Yeah like $10,000 for a song and 5 points (royalties) . Then it was $30,000 for a whole lp - not bad money back then .

Run DMC redid "Hard Times" from your first lp right ?

Yes Billy Bill ( Kool Kyles partner ) wrote that with me .

You were the first Emcee on Soul Train ?

Yes , I was 19 years old....I didnt even lipsync....I had an instrumental on the B side of " The Breaks " and I went live . Don Cornelous dissed rap.....when he introduced me he said " I don't know what all the fuss is about with this rap stuff , but I guess its just my job to introduce it.....Kurtis Blow.....I was like why did he do that on national TV ! ? !

I am in VA and Go Go has always been big here and in Maryland and Dc...what made you do " Partytime" with EU and later " Im Chillin " with Trouble Funk ?

I was doin a jam at the Capital Center when the " Breaks " was hot . EU came out and the crowd went crazy...they were doin call and response stuff.....then Trouble Funk came with the same.." We gonna drop the bomb on the Northwest crew Drop the bomb , Drop the bomb !!! " I was like what the hell is this ? Then Chuck Brown and the Soul Searchers came out...I knew them from " Bustin Loose ".....they rocked too....so I just knew I was gonna outdo these little local groups. Man I came with my " throw your hands in the air " nobody moved !!!! Trouble Funk and them kicked my ass !!!.....So I had to be a part of what they were doing...I just thought it would have caught on more .

How were you treated by your labelmates , being on Polygram/Mercury..when they had Barkays , Rene & Angela and all these people ?

It was mixed...nobody really understood Hip Hop . But I was the labels last priority . I met a lot of people though everybody...Bob Marley , Commodores , Mick Jagger and the Stones, Michael Jackson.....everyone .

What capacity did you meet Mike in...a club/party , studio or what...and was he cool ?

He was real cool , I used to date Latoya for awhile , I was a close freind of the family . I have been in the studio with Jermaine...they were cool people .

How did the Sprite commercial come about ?

The sister in their marketing department really pushed for me. People were saying Kurtis Blow is dead let Run DMC do it , but she wanted Kurtis Blow...I was real grateful to her for that.

Lastly do you feel that these R & B people really love Hip Hop all of a sudden , or do you think that they just use it to advance their careers ?

I dont think they all love it ; some probably do - its always been like that...I remember touring with the Commodores....by the end of the tour they were using " throw your hands in the air ". Which reminds me...I did radio in LA a few years back and Lionel Ritchie was on the radio - they asked him what he thought of Hip Hop...he said " most of these Hip Hoppers rap because they cant sing " . I was mad...I wanted to call in to talk to him....like hey remember you took me all around the world back in 1980.....but after that comment , I wanted to go kick his ass . But we cant worry with that , because we did it...Hip Hop is thee dominant youth culture in the world right now . We should really hold our heads up high.

What are you working on right now ?

My film documentary " The History Of Hip Hop "...im back and forth between the states and Germany editing im half done.

Keep us posted on that......PEACE.




-JAYQUAN.COM



KURTIS BLOW WEBSITES:

HIP HOP CHURCH

KURTIS BLOW MYSPACE

KURTIS BLOW & THE TRINITY

TRINTY HIP HOP

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BONUS:

Check out this interview with South African's DJ crew CHOP SU....READ IT HERE

Also check out a site that gives you that goes down in african Hip Hop....AFRICAN HIP HOP.COM

Next Week:
Domeshots & Fat Laces Vol. 30 :
DAVY DMX

DS & FL VOL. 28: ZEPHYR

ZEPHYR

In 1995 Zephyr was dubbed "The elder-statesman of graffiti" by the New York Times. Andrew Witten aka Zephyr began his public art career in 1977 by surreptitiously painting New York City subway cars. In the early nineteen eighties he traveled the globe with fellow aerosol artists Dondi and Futura, spreading the graffiti doctrine worldwide. He is a veteran of New York’s Fun Gallery, which also produced such art luminaries as Jean Michel Basquiat and Keith Haring. Currently, Zephyr divides his time between painting, drawing, writing and lecturing about various forms of modern art, with special attention to graffiti art. He is the author of "Style Master General" (HarperCollins, 1981) the biography of the late artist Dondi White.


By Jessica Cogan

In the 1960's, New York City commissioned artist Peter Max to trick out a fleet of city buses. His bold, psychedelic designs proved magical for at least one ten-year old waiting for the #10 cross town – that boy became legendary graffiti artist Zephyr. As he puts it, “When one of those tripped out buses pulled up at the curb, it was something so magical. Words don’t convey the experience…and riding those buses had a huge impact on me.”

Perhaps it was the democratic nature of public transportation that influenced Zephyr to take up graffiti, an art form accessible to all. “It feels free to me because it is. It’s the art of the people. Anyone can do it. Everyone sees it,” Zephyr mused in a recent interview with Trigger Magazine’s publisher, Liberation Iannillo.

Graffiti exists, according to Zephyr, in contrast to most of the art world. “Art, and specifically the so-called ‘art world’ exist in an elite never-never land. Art in the west is presented as something for those who can afford the luxury of dallying in it…I am a purist, and I don’t believe this is how things should be. Art needs to be for everyone. It has to be public….So I’m doing my part to change it, one graffiti piece at a time.”

Zephyr is one of the best known names in the graffiti-writing world. His career began in the late 70's – just after the first wave of the guerilla art form. But in the fast-paced world of graffiti art, he and his young friends found that by the time they wanted to contribute, many of their idols’ interests had shifted - some had even soured to the art form. “It was a complete mind-fuck, and it gave us pause. But only for a moment. We were already intoxicated with the act of writing, so we were not about to be put off.” So Zephyr and his friends had to find their own way in a landscape just recently carved out. “I’d have to say that for me and some of my cohorts like Revolt, a major turning point was when we decided to leave the past behind and form our own writing crew, RTW (Rolling Thunder Writers).”

Zephyr’s graffiti writing crew were focused on train painting and street tagging – activities that required stealth. “We fancied ourselves kind of sneaky and such. Of course, we really weren’t sneaky at all, being that we were longhaired freaks. But that’s another story…In the 70s, being a graffiti writer had no sex appeal and no commercial potential, and you did not tell anyone you were doing it. In many cases, not even our non-graffiti friends knew we did it, and sometimes not even our girlfriends (and certainly not our parents). The ‘graffiti artist hero’ thing is an 80's invention.”

If it wasn’t cool, it was at least peopled with interesting characters. While Zephyr collaborated briefly in the early 80's with renowned Lower East Side artist Jean-Michel Basquiat on a backdrop for a music video, it’s their friendship that he best remembers. “The backdrop we did for Clem Burke's band The Colors was just a one-off thing, no big deal. But I have much fonder, older memories of him coming by my place on 89th Street back in the late 70's, with a 40 ounce Rheingold beer. We’d sit and talk and smoke joints and draw cartoons with Radiograph pens. Damn, I’m getting sentimental here, but those were some good times.”

But things are different now for graffiti artists and the city that is their canvas. In Zephyr’s view, New York has become “a place that’s too expensive for its own inhabitants, designed by urban planners from other parts of the world for the inhabitation of people from other parts of the world. If you are part of this dying breed known as “native New Yorkers,” this city no longer gives a rat’s ass about you or what you think… but if you are a tourist from Kansas coming to New York, there’s a bunch of Starbucks, Disney Stores and Imax theaters so now you’ll feel right at home because it looks and feels just like the shitty mall in your town.”

And the commercial aspects of graffiti art that began in the 80s continue even now. “In today’s money-driven world, it’s tough not to question the motivation behind some street artists… discovering that many of these artists have simply used the streets as a premeditated vehicle to get into the WWW (what I call the ‘white-walled world’) is tragic to me.” But that’s not enough to negate the beneficial aspects of graffiti: “We need more public art, so anyone working unsanctioned on the streets is welcome, and it’s good news that they’re out there, taking the risks and doing it, despite what their motivations might be.”

Nowadays Zephyr writes and lectures about visual culture – advertising, tattooing, skateboard and surf culture, psychedelic art, album covers, comics and graffiti. He does some logo design, mostly for smaller independent companies. And he stays on top of his game with frequent “aerosol adventures” (in fact, he was out painting the night before this interview). Zephyr is also included in the New Museum's "East Village USA" exhibition which runs until March 19th of this year [2005].

Despite some disappointment with the current scene, Zephyr argues that we’re living in an important moment for graffiti. “I’m feeling that we are in the midst of a very strange and interesting seismic shift in terms of attitudes. As best as I can tell, the ‘mainstreaming’ of graffiti is having a fascinating effect…The bottom line is this: if the basic person on the street is starting to think of graffiti as less of a horrendous and dangerous assault on their person (which was the 80's mindset) and more as an accepted part of the visual matrix, for me as a graffiti writer, this is good news. Getting shot at by vigilantes was very unnerving.”








Interview with Zephyr

By Edward Morris

Zephyr was one of the pioneers of the New York subway graffiti movement from the late 70's to the early 80's. Today he has made a comeback to the scene, and proves himself, once again, a true graffiti legend. The following is an interview with Zephyr, given on his 34th birthday.

When did you start writing?

I started writing the name Zephyr in 1977. Before Zephyr I was writing "Kane," but the name most people knew me as was "Sky." I was playing around with graffiti for a few years before I ventured out to the playground to practice my tag on the metal part of the slides.

How did you get the name "Zephyr?"

From a brand of skateboards.

What first got you interested in graffiti?

Seeing it. Stitch and Snake, the kings of Broadway. The other Snake, Snake 131. All the original writers. Barbara 62, Eva 62, Michelle 62. When I was growing up I rode the trains and saw the graffiti. I have doodles as far back as '72-I was eleven-you can see I'm starting to play around with it. When I started I was doing "motion tags",hitting insides while the train's moving. "Bil-Rock," the writer who started RTW, was really into hitting trains. He was one of the guys who got me into going to the tunnels. Then "Mackie" got me into painting outsides. He really had to drag me, 'cause I wasn't interested in doing pieces. I was a tagger. When I first started piecing I really sucked, so it wasn't much fun. Besides, I figured in the time it took me to do a piece, I could do a lot more insides. Eventually I learned that to consider yourself a real writer you have to do outsides, you have to do insides, you have to do everything.

Which train lines did you paint?

I started on the Broadway #1 line. Once I exhausted that, I hit the RR's, the 6's, the 4's. When I hooked up with Dondi in 1980 I started hitting the 2's and 5's.






ZEPHYR & DONDI



Where have you done graffiti outside New York?

In the '80's I exhibited my graffiti canvases in Holland, France, England, Italy, Belgium, Germany, Switzerland. I also went with Dondi and Futura to Hong Kong in '82 and Japan in '83.

Was there graffiti in any of those cities when you first went there?

Hell no. The only place to see "New York style" graffiti back then was in New York.

What role did your going there influence the development of their "scenes?"

Everywhere we went the local kids heard about it and showed up. Then they created their own graffiti movements.

What do you see for the future?

Personally, I'm going to stay active until it's not fun for me anymore. As for the movement, the answer to that lies in the individuals involved. I just hope writers can rise above all the bullshit. In general, we're going to see more and more of the merger between graffiti and the internet.

Any parting comments?

I'd like to tell people to stay political, and never underestimate the importance of what you do. Graffiti is a critically important movement in modern history. Have an open mind to what other artists are doing...If you have respect for yourself, you should respect them too.

ZEPHYR GRAFFITI
FIELD MUSEUM
TRIGGER MAGAZINE

ZEPHYR WEBSITE:

ZEPHYR GRAFFITI.COM

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BONUS:



For all you hip hoppers out there you might find these articles about Japanese Hip Hop a little interesting.

Raw Like Sushi:Hip Hop In Japan

History of The Hip Hop Dance Scene In Japan

Interview With Japanese Graf Writer GIGA ONE

And while reading about Japanese Hip Hop give a holla to the 1992 New Music Seminar 2nd Place Winner
& Producer Extraordinaire
DJ HONDA


Next Week:
Domeshots & Fat Laces Vol 29:
The "King" of Rap KURTIS BLOW

DS & FL VOL. 27: QUIK

QUIK





By Roger Gastman

So, what started it for you?

Actually, seeing gang graffiti on the walls, like the Apaches and Black Spades, and Latino motorcycle stuff and Black motorcycle gang stuff. In '69, once my parents started letting me go to the ball games myself, I just started scribbling with little dry markers in "69. By "70, I had graduated to little cans of Testor's paint. I manipulated my dad into buying them, pretending I was going to spray paint my models, model boats and planes. Also, my grandma would take me to the ball games in Yankee Stadium in the Bronx. I"d see the 4 train go by and see AJ161, top to bottoms, top to bottoms, and was like, wow, I really want to do that. I"ve got these photos of me from that time, in my choir outfit, confirmation robe, my little smile- you can almost see the halo over my head. That was all about getting to go to church just so I could go bombing. I would either spray my way to church or back. My parents would give me 50 cents to take the bus. I would just take the bus either way,and spend the other 25 cents on pizza or something, and just spray along. And also you got to meet girls. So between spray painting and the girls, going to choir was my big excuse.

Were these girls supposed to be there for choir?

Yeah, we just did it to meet each other and engage in that pre-pubescent feeling-up stuff.

You show me yours, I"ll show you mine?

Well, I don't know, I grew up kind of strange. We didn't have to show each other shit, we knew what to do. The girls always knew what they wanted the guys to do.

Did graffiti help you get girls?


Definitely not. It helped me get into a lot of fights. A lot of us make Jokes, like, damn, being a graf dude you only attract dudes, you attract like one gal per 100 dudes. But my ex-wife, she would go through the tunnels with me. Now she's a corporate executive for a bank. I have photos of the things she helped me with. I used to take people who were not part of the graf culture, just to show them how weird we were.




QUIK In 1983


So you graduated high school, and went to college in DC?

Yeah that was 1976, I wanted to be a forest ranger. Growing up in New York, I spent a lot of time in nature, and even at the end of the 60's a lot of my mentors were hippies. I had a respect for nature. I had done a lot of hiking and canoeing, and nature was really important to me, and it bothered me that mankind was fucking it up. I had a friend of mine, a graf dude, who said he went canoeing, took his chain saw and chopped down a tree. The place he told me he went to was a place I used to go as a kid, and I thought that was horrible, that they go on weekend adventures and chop down trees where I used to go and chill, make campfires, have sex, and just be groovy. I wanted to protect nature from that Neanderthal attitude. But at American University, it was more Environmental Science than forestry. I was too much of a pot head, and I was not into science. I realized that if I was a forest ranger, I'd be the only Black forest ranger in the northeast, and all the other guys were rednecks, just like mounted police. I started doing more painting in class and tagging around the city. I kept going back to New York, tagging and bombing, because college on that level was not interesting. I eventually got kicked off campus when I threw a console TV out of a 5th floor window. It made a huge crashing noise!I heard you partied with the pimps and hookers a lot. I was big time down with hanging out with prostitutes on street corners from New York. We used to hang around with the pimps, strictly the super fly stuff. There was just something about that seedy underworld, and looking at those characters. Just the pimps, there was something about their naive Southern ways, coming to New York with their big brims and big cars. In DC, the pimps weren't as friendly, but I used to hang out with the girls. You know, you would watch their back, smoke a joint with them, run and get them a soda. Then you got your freebie at the end of the night, or you got your discount. I didn't mind that.


What's your favorite story from hanging out with the pimps and hookers?

During the blackout of '77, a buddy and I had just bought a bag of black cheeba in Spanish Harlem, and we were cruising down Park Avenue. We went and hung out on Delancey Street. There was this pool hall right on the corner. By then we had graduated to the honor of being able to step inside and sit down. You could never talk to the pimps unless they spoke to you.


So the pimps got along with each other?


Not all the time. We never saw any fights, but they would pull knives on each other and threaten one another. It was more that we were privileged to watch them or to go get them a beer. We could talk to their girls if they talked to us or if we wanted a service. If we wanted to speak to the girls conversationally, we had to do it outside.

How old were you then?


18, but we had been hanging out for years so they kinda' got to know us. The strange thing was I always looked like a Neil Young dude, whereas my best friend looked super Black and wore the uptown Grandmaster Flash Lees and black pocket t-shirt. So it was just a trip, that we were odd dudes from Queens, and were accepted by that culture. But I realized that it was my craving for the old blues, the Sugar Shack thing that I never experienced that drew me to that crowd..

So how did this pubic hair collection start?


I guess with the first girl. I got home and there was that thing between my teeth. I guess I have that gap in my teeth, and you know how it is. You wake up the next morning and you got hair in between your teeth. If it was a good one, well, I would just save it. I got a couple, all colors, all flavors. I've slowed the collection part, but I got some fine memories.


Did your mom ever find out what happened in the back of the car?

Well, we're Americans, so that's where you do most of your business anyway. I think my parents figured out what was going on with this car fixation on the weekends, other than bombing. I went out with my ex-wife for years. We would go to movies, and the car was the date, it was your hotel room. You get a big car, do it in the car, park at a golf course. Then after I took care of my business it was time to go bombing. Time to meet the fellas.

So what happened after you decided you didn't want to be a forest ranger?

I went back to New York to go to Pratt Institute. Art school of course hated me, but what was cool about Pratt was there were PHASE2 tags all over the place. Of course I bombed that school and they wanted to throw me out. Every time I would do my work, they would give me a failing grade. If they said to do a 9x11 self-portrait, I would bring in something huge, in 9x11 proportions. They said if I took that to an ad agency I wouldn't get the job, so they would fail me. I thought art school was a crock of shit, because I was pulling out whole cars top to bottom every evening, then coming home an doing my homework. I would look at the people next to me and think their work looked real good and they were gonna make lots of money on Madison Avenue, but there was something about what I was doing that they'd never get. I knew that people were going to know my type of work, to know this type- I would not be anonymous, and I was just determined. I quit art school and started working at IBM to make lots of money to fuel my addictions for sex, drugs, cars, and rock and roll. I got sick of IBM because I realized that after 20 years I'd have a car and a house three times as big as my dad's, but there wasn't anywhere to go with it.

What did you do then?

I went back to art school. By then, we had hit the papers, with FUTURA, ALI, and ZEPHYR. The same fucking art teachers would ask me to do the same homework, and do it 9x11. I'd bring these giant paintings in, and they'd be like, "Hey, graffiti is hip. You're our resident graffiti artist," and I'd get an A. Whereas a few years before, they had failed me. I was like, fuck this, and once again I left. Luckily, FUTURA forced me to meet a gallery dealer at a DONDI opening. FUTURA said "Hey, that dude over there, he's actually buying graff paintings and I know you got paintings, so go meet him." I look over, and there were dudes like AONE, KOOR, LADY PINK, all these type of people jumping up an down around the guy. I didn't bother to go meet the guy, and later in the evening FUTURA said "hey, did you go meet him?" I said no, and he literally dragged me across the room and made me shake the guy's hand. He said, "A lot of people talk about you, do you have paintings?" He made an appointment to see my work in my house. The guy came and he bought a couple of paintings. Then it started again in Holland in 1983. We started doing shows and I ended up over there. In the 80's I flew across the Atlantic like ten times in one year, to do exhibitions and sell my work. The work I sold in New York and America, 90% of the time, went back to Europe for collections. Then I realized that America is 275 years old, and Europe has a history of thousands of years supporting people who are painters, artists and sculptors. So its part of the European culture to maintain creative people.

The European people were supportive, paying your bills?

Sometimes I made a lot of money and then sometimes it would die out. Such is the life of an artist. I think the interesting thing for me is that I'm 40, and my work has had three renaissances. Most artists don't get recognition until they are 40. So I had a really blessed life that way. I've seen a lot of stuff. I've been a lot of places just from that strange talent that goes from my brain to my right hand. I would say the European community of guys who wanted to bomb supported us the best. You know, gallery owners, they are businessmen. They sell the work to clients. Of course, that earns us money, but the love and respect we got was from the people themselves, just like back in New York. Ending up in Holland as opposed to Paris, Germany, or England, you know the Dutch people are warm and open and I think far more loving and compassionate and realistic about creativity. So perhaps, had we been picked up by someone else or some other gallery mechanism, I don't think it would have gone as far as it did, because the Dutch people really love graffiti artists as well as Keith Haring.

So you're still happy over there now?

In a sense I'm happy. I went over there with the intention of beginning to control or take back my artwork from dealers who were manipulating it for huge profits. I felt like I wasn't making so much, guys like NOC are dying, living on the street with drugs, guys like MINONE never even got their props. These guys selling the work are living in fat houses and mansions and it was out of control. So I went back to sort of control my work. There had been a large exhibition of graffiti work in the Netherlands. At the same time, there was a very big show in Germany. I stuck around to watch and see what would happen with my work. What I did not realize was how long it would take. It took about six years to do. I went there with the intention of working, but I needed to make money, which was difficult. I wouldn't say I was starving, but it was difficult. It took that long to be able to control that work. Living without the paranoia of New York and America, I find it a far better environment for me to paint in, to become the type of painter I try to be. .

Your paintings are graffiti-influenced?

I'd say they are all graffiti-inspired. My painter part of me is just being QUIK, but l like to do other things. I paint a lot about the racism in America. I think that's why I'm one of Holland's favorite neo-graffiti artists. Dutch humor is really dark, and I think they see that within my work there is a lot of humor, but it's dark. I've just found that I have a far better audience for my work in Holland. And the women are a lot prettier.

Do you have some groupies?

I might have one or two.


Do women throw themselves at you at art shows?

That has happened.

Fresh 20 year olds?

That has happened.

Do you turn them down?

Even that has happened. There is only so much a man can handle. I love my ex-wife. I have a daughter. I think I've gotten more pussy than people have socks. But it's not about that anymore. Although you've always gotta keep your options open.

Do you still paint?

Not since my near-catastrophic accident.


What accident?


I was fleeing a very pimp-like art situation. I was just fed up. I didn't really have the energy to drive home, but I had been out bombing, and I had a couple beers under my belt, and I simply fell asleep at 4:30 AM. What it all adds up to is I'm just too old to bomb.





Do you still have the urge?

Constantly. I still watch the train yards. Sometimes the thrill is gone. The last time I did a full-out bomb, I was with SACH and IZ. We were in our early 30's, it takes a lot out of you. They wore out before I did. But I did sleep very well that night. It did feel strange that I've done this 10,000 times, because what's 10,001? The times of 300 throw-ups a night, that's over for us guys.

What's your fondest memory?

So many, the high of going bombing with JESTER, looking at beautiful whole cars done by other guys. Dogging other people's graf. The memory of going over a fresh BLADE - COMET whole car. They had done a complete car, and I completely covered it. Just little things like that.


You said you hung out with a lot of white trash guys?


I go way back, the Uncle John days. Guys like me we were toys, so we would hold the paint for them. They would cut the fence, go in, spray paint, then they would finish and we were allowed to go in. They went home, they didn't watch our backs. We would find whatever little spaces were left to hit. That's how I learned a lot about going through the yards. I guess it was post-60's, and even my father dug the fact that graffiti was uniting races and religions so as long as everybody was getting down to go bombing. It wasn't such a Black vs. White thing as most American culture was. That's why we felt comfortable underground. My father really dug that we got together to do graf. My dad would give me gas money to go bombing.

How does your family think that you went from illegal graffiti artist to where you are now?


They have been somewhat receptive to the fact that I've had some sort of artistic career. Unfortunately for them, it took place in Holland. They did see my art blossom and take off. When I first quit IBM they were upset. My family had some old traditional values. A lot of my family went to all-Black colleges, and I was like, no, this is my life. I want to be a forest ranger and rock to Jimi Hendrix and Black Sabbath and that won't be happening at Morgan or the other Black colleges. I got a lot of flack for that. In a sense, they didn't support my dream. Now I got a daughter who is half-ass proud of me, my ex-wife is half-ass proud of me, and they are the two most important people to me.

What about wild situations that graf has put you in ?


Lots of mild situations like rafting down to Delaware. Maybe going into the mountains in California with HAZE, while deer are jumping out of the woods. There are so many I can't explain it all. There was a hotel on Delancey, and I remember I had been in every single one of those hotel rooms at some point in time. I remember meeting my first pussy that looked like ten packs of bubble gum chewed up and spit out. I don't have a hair from that one.


Anything else?

Stay away from my daughter, all you motherfuckers, if you know what's good for you.

- GUERILLA ONE



Next Week:
Domeshots & Fat Laces Vol 28: ZEPHYR

DS & FL VOL. 26: PEE WEE DANCE

Originally Posted on June 8,2006

PEE WEE DANCE






Going into its thirty-third year, Hip-Hop has spun on pitch with the times. But as wise words echo from a true originator, the hands of time might want to cut the record back. Pee Wee Dance was expressing himself in the would-be culture when Richard Nixon was Americas president. The mans role in Hip-Hop has afforded him over three decades of traveling, experience, and wisdom. Today, Pee Wee Dance is very candid on the elements of the culture that are true to form and those that arent.

The Bronx, New York native tells a story we love to hear again and again. The man reflects on Hip-Hop as its told, and credits those, including himself, who made it what it is. The man who partied in Sedgwick Cedar Park, toured with Rock Steady, and now offers the truth to the youth.

State your name, soldier.

Pee-Wee Dance is a name you could never forget, and if you cant say it all, then dont say s**t.

I hear that. What was your entry into Hip-Hop?

When I started, it was about 1971. It wasnt even called Hip-Hop yet. At the time, it was called the go-off, or the bo-oi-oing. Boi-oi-oing was the way we wore our hats, you know the hats with the ball? We would wear them on the left side and we would do certain moves [to make the ball] to go boing boing, you know? Hip-Hop started August 11, 1973. Love Bug Starski coined the word, the word Hip-Hop. Now Afrika Bambaataa added the word culture to it so that now Hip-Hop was defined, see, you gotta stay focused. He added the word culture because it came with the consciousness. Kool Herc is the father. Herc started it, and from Kool Herc, it went to Bam. Then you have Starski and from Starski, you have [Grand Wizard] Theodore. From Theordore, then you have Grandmaster Flash. So you have five people thats really the forefathers.

What is the difference between a Grandmaster and an MC, if any?

A Grandmaster could be anything. Its just a title that a person has to uphold. If you call yourself the Grand, you call yourself the Man. So you have to be able to demonstrate your ability for you to be recognized.

Where has this culture taken you?

Ive been from one side to the last, you know? Frankfurt, Germany, Osaka, Japan, Tokyo, London. I been on the bullet train, we take it to the British side, saw where the [Berlin] Wall was at, seen the London Bridge. We can keep it going you know. All around the world .

They say Hip-Hop has four elements. Who are the architects of each element?

Four elements: MCing, DJing, graffiti, and then you have dancing. Now Kool Herc is the father, so everything that happened, happened with his crew first. [Then] you had Sweet & Sour-that was female MCs, you had Pebbley Poo, she was down with the Untouchable Crew. Her Brother was Master Don and the Def Committee. Im trying to remember everyone that was down with the Herculords, because the Herculords was also the speakers [Hercs sound system]. It started at 1520 Sedgwick Avenue and it was started by Hercs sister, Cindy, so thats the Mother of Hip-Hop. See, everyone knows the father, but they dont know the mother of Hip-Hop. They were having a back to school party in August, cause school started in September. So Herc brought his equipment outside and he did the unthinkable. He put some s**t together under a light pole. It got too crowded at 1520, so they went down the block to Sedgwick and Cedar, the park. That night, over 3,000 people came, and the game has changed ever since.

What about MCing? Who was the prime original MC?

I mean, you got Melle Mel who was the godfather of colorful rhymes.

When Run-DMC ushered in the next wave, even though they had Jam Master Jay, it kinda began the spotlight being put on the MCs rather than the DJs. How did the pioneers feel about that transition?

I dont know. Youd have to ask DMC and them about that. But motherf**kers need to stop trying to label everything. Its too opinionated, you know? Hip-Hop taught me what love is, rap showed me what a thug is. Too much I syndrome and not enough Us syndrome. Cause its us that made Hip-Hop, not I, I,I. N***as need to respect what came before the matrix.

How has Hip-Hop dealt with the rise of the rap industry? Hip-Hop teaches love, the industry promotes divisiveness.

A lot of people cant tell the difference right now. If you take the R the A and the P, you have Rap Artists Pretending. So people know its an act, its Hollywood, so people are attracted to it because it makes money.

As a person who has been part of this Hip-Hop culture for over three decades, what has it given to you?

Everything I got now.

Care to elaborate?

I dont have to, n***as know. I dont have to say no mo, but I still will bless the flow. It is what it is. Ability not demonstrated remains unrecognized. N***as can still catch me in the club. See its a lotta hot n***as, but I still feel Im the top n***a. I go where they at, but they dont know where I am.

Which MCs do you think still represent Hip-Hop today?

Im saying, Rakim, Common, Mos Def, Black Thought, Kweli, you know, Big L, Grandmaster Caz, and it goes on. I respect artists of today, but I also respect those that paved the way. Any time I spit something about Hip-Hop, its from the inception of it. I aint gonna try to cut nothing off or try to make something what it aint cause Im from before the matrix. If cats want respect, they are going to have to give it. N***as gotta wake up, man. You biting motherf**kers s**t, you sh**tin on the old school, but at the same time, you want to be treated as an adult. Where are they coming from with that?

What do you think about rap beef? How productive is it; how real is it?

I dont give a f**k about that, but Ill still go with the winner. Thats n***as egos, they need to let that Ego! They aint about nothing. You have soldiers and suckas, live ones and jive ones. You got those that represent and those that repretend. Pioneers and Lyin-eers.

Whats your relationship to Kool Herc?

Im grown now, he taught me when I was a kid. Him, Bam, Flash, Theodore, Mean Gene, DJ Dee. Everybody that laid the foundation, cats like that. Thats the lineage. Hip-Hop forever.


- ALL HIP HOP and special shout out to DJ -P.L.R for sending this interview with Pee Wee Dance my way.

BONUS:


Check out an interesting article in the Village Voice on B Boying in the jungle scene. READ IT HERE
Also another short interview with Kid Freeze, Crazy Legs & Pee Wee Dance READ IT HERE




Next Week:
Domeshots & Fat Laces Vol 27: QUIK